Reread Redux, Reread Redux, Reread Redux… the words have lost all meaning!
Today’s Redux post, nevertheless, will cover Chapters 9 and 10 of The Great Hunt, originally reread in this post.
All original posts are listed in The Wheel of Time Reread Index here, and all Redux posts will also be archived there as well. (The Wheel of Time Master Index, as always, is here, which has links to news, reviews, interviews, and all manner of information about the Wheel of Time in general on Tor.com.)
The Wheel of Time Reread is also available as an e-book series! Yay!
All Reread Redux posts will contain spoilers for the entire Wheel of Time series, so if you haven’t read, read at your own risk.
And now, the post!
Chapter 9: Leavetakings
Redux Commentary
I said in the original commentary that I couldn’t remember at that point what had even happened to Hurin after TGH, which is probably because at the time Hurin really had completely disappeared after this book (except for a brief scene in TDR where I think he gets like one line). He doesn’t appear again until TGS, which at the time of my original commentary had not yet been published.
However, I certainly can’t say I don’t remember what happened to him now, since his mention in the litany of Last Battle deaths Rand is forced to witness from afar in AMOL is about where I started crying real tears. I teared up again just now thinking about it, jeez.
It was the concatenation of all those known characters dying at once, of course, but part of it was Hurin specifically. All untimely character death sucks, obviously, but there’s something much worse about reading of the death of a character like Hurin, who above all else came across as… well, maybe not quite an innocent, because that doesn’t seem like the right descriptor for a guy who could literally smell all the horrible things people (and Shadowspawn) do to each other. Maybe just fundamentally decent is a better way to put it. Basically the guy just didn’t seem to have a single mean bone in his body, and he didn’t deserve to die the way he did. Not that any of the other characters did either, but you know what I mean.
Anyway, it was sad and it made me feel sad, moving on.
She kept muttering, ‘Is it old come again, or new?’ and staring at me until you would have thought I was using the One Power. Almost had me doubting myself. But I haven’t gone mad, and I don’t do anything. I just smell it.”
Rand could not help remembering Moiraine. Old barriers weaken. There is something of dissolution and change about our time. Old things walk again, and new things are born. We may live to see the end of an Age.
I never quite worked out where sniffers fit into the overall scheme of WOT cosmology, but basically I’m kind of not really bothered about it anymore. It does seem a little odd that it apparently only ever showed up among the Borderlander populations, but it must be admitted that the Border is certainly where the talent would come in most handy. I guess it’s basically like the Wolfbrother thing – a vanishingly rare magical mutation that shows up in a miniscule percentage of the population. Fair enough.
Loial carried no weapon that Rand could see; he had never heard of any Ogier using a weapon. Their stedding were protection enough. And Loial had his own priorities, his own ideas of what was needed for a journey. The pockets of his long coat had a telltale bulge, and his saddlebags showed the square imprints of books.
Now there’s a fictional character who could use a Kindle.
“I said listen, sheepherder,” the Warder growled. “There will come a time when you must achieve a goal at all costs. It may come in attack or in defense. And the only way will be to allow the sword to be sheathed in your own body.”
“That’s crazy,” Rand said. “Why would I ever—?”
The Warder cut him off. “You will know when it comes, sheepherder, when the price is worth the gain, and there is no other choice left to you. That is called Sheathing the Sword. Remember it.”
Yeah, I still think this bit is a little clunky, but whatever. It’s lucky that Rand was apparently smart enough to realize Lan meant letting your opponent give you a killing strike in order to guarantee your own in return, because the way it’s phrased here it could be interpreted as more of a seppuku-type move. Granted, I can’t think offhand of a situation in which stabbing yourself with your own sword would give you any kind of tactical advantage in a duel (other than, er, ending it), but I assume there probably is one if you think about it long enough.
Only Rand, and his two friends on the other side of the party, stayed upright. He wondered what [the Amyrlin] had said to them.
I wonder too, actually. I don’t think we ever found out specifically, but it must have been quite an off-putting thing if neither Mat nor Perrin were moved to bow to her as well.
Domon breathed heavily; every time he returned from the northcountry he found himself surprised, for all he had been born there, at the early summer heat in Illian.
Illian obviously takes many of its characteristics from the Greek/Mediterranean region, but on this reading it reminds me a little of New Orleans too, which is also a southern port city with sometimes dubious smells and an “any excuse for a party” type atmosphere. The association was probably mostly owed, though, to the above quote, and my memory of the first time I came back to New Orleans in the summer after having lived away from it for a few years, and walking out of the airport and literally ducking at the way the heat just came down on me, like a sweaty fat man had just sat on my head. Takes a bit of getting used to, for sure.
It’s probably the same in southern Europe, too, of course, but until someone buys me that world tour I’ll have to go off the experiences I have. Thbbt.
Easing the Badger, it was called, though not even Nieda Sidoro, the innkeeper, knew what the name meant; there had always been an inn of the name in Illian.
That is just never not going to sound dirty to me. And if you claim it doesn’t sound dirty to you, I’m not going to believe you.
Also, one of these days I’m going to remember to ask Harriet whether the riff on the inn’s name in TOM (where Perrin “eases” the badger Mat catches to celebrate their reunion) was meant to be an actual explanation of the phrase, or just an in-joke for the readers and their many long years of naughty, naughty Internet speculation on what exactly constitutes “easing” a “badger”. You know who you are.
A small, age-dark ivory carving of a man holding a sword. The fellow who sold it claimed if you held it long enough you started to feel warm.
I wonder if that guy ever figured out he could be taught to channel.
It’s too bad no one (apparently) ever realized this carving was an angreal for men (I mean, I’m assuming, but the implication seems pretty clear), because as far as I know there was only one other one discovered in the entire course of the series: Rand’s little fat man angreal. Could’ve come in handy, you know?
Chapter 10: The Hunt Begins
Redux Commentary
In the comments to the original post, a couple of people confirmed that Jordan had said that the repeating fly vision thing was a trap set by Fain, but I still don’t understand how Fain could have known Rand would walk into that particular house and trigger it. And he obviously didn’t set traps in all of the houses, because immediately after Rand escapes, we see Mat coming out of another house no worse for wear, and the whole company had been searching the other houses to boot.
I mean, if Jordan said Fain did it then I guess we’ll have to go with it, but personally I think that what several commenters suggested – that it was a bubble of evil – makes a lot more sense. But, you know. Fain and sense aren’t exactly BFFs at the best of times, so why not.
I will say that even now, the bit here where they find out that they are chasing a guy who can totally nail Myrrdraal to doors like it ain’t no thang is still pretty chilling.
Rand tried to ride with Mat and Perrin, but when Rand let his horse drop back to them, Mat nudged Perrin, and Perrin reluctantly galloped to the head of the column with Mat. Telling himself there was no point riding at the back by himself, Rand rode back to the front. They fell to the rear again, Mat again urging Perrin.
Burn them. I only want to apologize. He felt alone. It did not help that he knew it was his own fault.
Yeah, maybe, but it’s still Mat I want to give forehead flicks to right now. And one to spare for Perrin re: growing a damn spine and telling Mat to stop acting like a sulky toddler already. Sheesh.
“Aiel are hard,” Ingtar said. “Man and woman, hard. I’ve fought them, and I know. They will run fifty miles, and fight a battle at the end of it. They’re death walking, with any weapon or none. Except a sword. They will not touch a sword, for some reason. Or ride a horse, not that they need to. If you have a sword, and the Aielman has his bare hands, it is an even fight. If you’re good. They herd cattle and goats where you or I would die of thirst before the day was done. They dig their villages into huge rock spires out in the Waste. They’ve been there since the Breaking, near enough. Artur Hawkwing tried to dig them out and was bloodied, the only major defeats he ever suffered. By day the air in the Aiel Waste shimmers with heat, and by night it freezes. And an Aiel will give you that blue-eyed stare and tell you there is no place on earth he would rather be. He won’t be lying, either. If they ever tried to come out, we would be hard-pressed to stop them. The Aiel War lasted three years, and that was only four out of thirteen clans.”
This is a total infodump, and I’m pretty sure I ate it up on first reading, since this is the first time (I think) we get any real information on the Aiel, and we had been nicely primed to be eager for that information after the tantalizing hints given us by Loial and Gawyn and Tam’s remarks in TEOTW. So well done there.
“Everything, everywhere, fading. There is hardly a nation that truly controls the land it claims on a map, and there is hardly a land that claims today on a map what it did even a hundred years ago. When the War of the Hundred Years ended, a man rode from one nation into another without end from the Blight to the Sea of Storms. Now we can ride through wilderness claimed by no nation for almost the whole of the land.”
This is a thing which seems weird to me, just because it is so unlike the world I know, where an ever-burgeoning population has long since claimed every last bit of livable land on the planet, along with most of the non-livable bits to boot. Sure, there’s plenty of empty land/wilderness out there, but almost none of it is unclaimed wilderness (even if some of it has only technically been claimed by one dude). Ergo, the idea of just having huge empty swaths of perfectly arable land lying around with no takers is startling, to me anyway.
In Randland, of course, it’s a sign of the impending apocalypse – humanity in decline and alla that. Which is sort of amusing when you consider how many people think the massive overcrowding of the real world is the sign of our impending apocalypse. But then, some people seem to grab onto just about any dang thing as proof of impending apocalypse. Very popular consequence of things, impending apocalypse is. And now neither of those words make any sense to me anymore. (Maybe it’s a sign of impending apocalypse!)
“Gone, my Lord. But she was there. A woman in a white dress, at the window. I saw her. I even thought I saw her inside, for a moment, but then she was gone, and…” He took a deep breath. “The house is empty, my Lord.”
Hi, Lanfear! Nice of you to drop in!
But we’ll visit more with Crazy Aunt Mierin later, I promise. Until then, stay frosty, kids, and I’ll see you next Tuesday!
Even if you don’t count the sa’angreal that Rand used to cleanse saidin (and later destroyed) or Callandor, Taim had a male angreal during the Last Battle. There may have been a couple others throughout the series.
I had forgotten how many little details there were in these early books, ie the male angreal, and I wonder how many of them I even noticed during my first few reads, or before I started following this reread. I wish we had gotten more info on Hurin’s talent and on talents in general, maybe in the Encyclopedia if we’re lucky.
I’m also struck by the empty land issue, it’s interesting that the population in Randland is so low. It’s also interesting how accurate this description of the Aiel actually is. These types of descriptions of societies are usually full of prejudices and stereotypes, especially when given about people who have been enemies.
Also, yes, Mat is a real ass in these early books (and some of the later books) when it comes to Rand, it really delayed me in terms of getting onboard with his awesome-ness later.
IIRC, the angreal Domon had was included among the plunder that Turak plundered from Domon’s ship. Not sure who (if anybody) collected Turak’s cuendillar when the Seanchan evacuated Falme.
Thanks for reading my musings.
AndrewHB
I believe there was probably a male angreal in the cache of Items Nyneave and Elayne found in Ebu Dar.
@1 Taim borrowed Demendred’s Sa’angreal in the last battle to fight Egwene. I don’t recall him having another angreal.
It is kind of sad about Hurin though, I agree. As for the Trap that Fain set, he couldn’t set one in every house, and I’m not sure he was specifically targeting Rand, although I’m sure he might have thought he was in his own crazypants way. Sucks to be the most powerful Ta’veren around sometimes.
Isn’t the dead flies thing the part where Rand talks about moonbeams made of steel, cobwebs made of stone? I always assumed Lanfear was doing it.
I believe I would soon become a raisin there!
Very touching I found what Ingtar said there about mankind receding.
Apparently, Lan and Rand are the only ones who are crazy enough to Sheathe the Sword and take out their respective Forsaken.
Ingtar’s speech about the decline of humanity is I think the real reason he turned to the Shadow. I just don’t see the hubris and greed in him of a typical Dark Friend.
What I do see in him is despair and depression from years upon years of fighting hard pressed battles and losing friends hidden behind a mask of bravado. He and his countrymen spent their lives protecting southerners who never gave aide and often thought shadow spawn were nothing but fairy tales.
This man made terrible choices and did terrible things, but you cannot convince me he turned to the shadow for any other reason but that he (foolishly) thought helping the Shadow win a quick victory might end up saving something of the Borderland people.
There is a reason “the pathway to hell is paved with good intentions” is a saying. Why else would he have saved Aglemar’s life at great risk to his own at Tarwin’s Gap?
The moment the Horn of Valere became a valid possibility, he persued it with a dogged determination. For what? As far as he knew his “allies” in the Shadow already had it. So it had to be because it would give the Light at chance of victory. He wanted to be redeemed.
Every time the scene with Lan explaining Sheathing the Sword to Rand is mentioned it reminds me of one of the classic lines in Isam’s famous WOT summaries:
“Lan: This move is called “Ending the Book.” Use it in a climactic battle at the end of the book against a bad guy.”
The whole decline of humanity stuff and the huge swathes of good land with nobody living on them always seemed to me one of the least plausible parts of the WoT world. Yes, there are Darkfriends and Trollocs, but the Trollocs hasn’t been a factor at all south of the Borderlands for almost 2000 years yet population continues to decline for some reason. And the Aiel are contend to stay in their desert instead of moving to way better unoccipied lands because of some old stories 99% of them don’t even know.
Regarding the empty lands, what I don’t get is why are wars fought over in the South if there is so much empty land lying around. In the North, the borderlanders don’t wage war on each other, they only care about defeating the Shadow. But in the South there’s all these wars. Normally wars are because people want more territory or loot. In the case of territory, it’s territory to expand into. If there’s so much empty land, why not go there? Why would Andor wage war with Cairhien or vice-versa if there’s so much empty land north? The same with the Tarabon – Arad Doman rivalry. Why not go east or north in that case? I think I’d get it if Jordan had described these lands as arid or jungle, things that would make it very hard to turn them arable or even to feed cattle with.
@5 It is indeed that scene and Rand certainly channels to escape whatever it is.
“Desperately he reached for the flickering light. His stomach twisted, but the light was warm. Warm. Hot. He was hot.”
“Suddenly he was tearing at . . . something. He did not know what, or how. Cobwebs made of steel. Moonbeams carved from stone. They crumbled at his touch, but he knew he had not touched anything. They shriveled and melted with the heat that surged through him, heat like a forge fire, heat like the world burning, heat like—”
I always thought it was Lanfear trying to force Rand to channel, just as she later encourages him to remain in the Void at all times.
@7 I’d argue Moiraine also takes this route by tackling Lanfear the Finn doorway. It’s also kind of odd that all 3 of them don’t actually die in their attempts to Sheath the Sword.
@@@@@ Leigh
I took the small, age-dark ivory carving of a man holding a sword to be a ter’angreal that anyone could use. Suppose it could be either.
Please do ask Harriet about easing the badger. The ToM bit has gotta be a Brandon-being-Brandon, multi-level Brandon device, imho.
Maybe my mind just works on a different wavelength, but I had always assumed that “Easing the Badger” was a reference to the rather cruel blood sports they were historically made the unwilling participants of.
That being said, now that Leigh has insinuated more perverted contexts could be applied, I doubt I’ll ever be able to purge them from my mind. I don’t know what worse, a reference to cruelty or…whatever it is she was thinking…
And there’s the double entendre of, there will come a time, and you know when then price is high, for you to let the other man sheathe his sword in your body. Now not going further with that, I’m sure that’s enough (There’s at least one for each book).
It is very touching also the funeral service in Shienar.
The Shienarans who are unfriendly to Rand probably don’t like that he is second in command.
Shouldn’t Egeanin later find the letter? The Seanchan may not recognize the authority of a king from this side of the ocean, but they would certainly punish a darkfriend.
Did Barthanes fake the letter or is Galldrian a darkfriend, too?
I think letters likely get washed out, they are easily brought to any corruption. Galldrian was probably of the Light, though who can say, but Darkfriends aren’t as common as that. I think the Seanchan, outside of their scouts, had no idea of what was happening in Randland.
I think these chapters are very intriguing to get a glimpse inside Ingtar. I agree with @8 that this is the reason Ingtar turned to the Shadow. However, I wonder what in these scenes encourages him to turn back. Is it the potential glory from the Horn? Is it seeing what happened to the Shienarans and the Fade? Both?
When I read the flies scene again, I initially thought it was Lanfear (probably because of the moonbeams). But, there’s nothing there that it has to be saidar. It could easily be either Fain’s work or Lanfear’s, and if Jordan says that it was Fain, I’ll believe him.
I’m curious. When Rand notices the someone before the arrow was fired, he thinks, “the watcher was back.” So, there actually was someone watching him before when he was alone?
I also like Hurin and wish that he could’ve done something later. But, he was kind of in the book for this one purpose: how else could they find the horn? Just wandering?
It’s called Suicide Bombing. Kamikaze, as well. Sailing into port on a fireship loaded with explosives, if you’re a US Navy man during the US’s first foreign intervention
ht tps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Barbary_War
And of course, sacrificing yourself for the good of your comrades …
Ryamano @@@@@ 10
The empty lands by themselves need not stop wars between nations. E.g. Andor and Cairhien’s wars were mainly for control over a key river city on their border (Aringill I think).
But there are a couple of very strange rivalries that lead to frequent wars. One is between Tarabon and Arad Doman across Amloth Plain. The logic for this one can be argued for, unlike the second one: Cairhien and Tear. Apparently (IIRC) their armies have often clashed in the lands between them- these are hundreds of miles of empty lands, with a difficult terrain to boot. I don’t know were to start with this one- the logic of the wars or the huge logistical problems of getting an army several hundred miles through empty lands, and back again.
The general emptying of the lands in Randland and Tolkien’s LOTR is very counter-intuitive from the experience of our world. When huge depopulating events had taken place in the past- the incredible losses during the Black Plague in the 1340s, the Mongol Invasion of Eastern Europe c1240, the Thirty Years War 1618-1648, etc what happened in Randland or Eriador never happened here. Often, the lives of the remaining population improved- certainly after the Black Plague and the Thirty Years war in Germany. In fantasy worlds we have to take the vast empty lands as a given, I suppose.
The thing about population imbalances in either direction is that they are like bolders–it’s hard to start a shift, but once it gets rolling it’s even harder to stop.
My guess is the Shadow played a large part in both the continuing decline in overall population and the continuing wars in Randland (because from what little we see, Seanchan, Shara and even the Aiel Waste all have populations that are at least stable and possibly even growing compared to the Randland countries).
So in all likelyhood, ever since the breaking the Dark One and Ishameal have made sure that high ranking dark friends have caused strategic political wars and strife between countries and of course every thousand years or so the Shadow sets up something big to really set back the overall welfare of lands they know the Dragon will be born in and Tarmon Gai’don fought.
I haven’t read the comments, so forgive me if someone already suggested this, but…..
Could the “fly thing” have been put there by Lanfear? I mean she was lurking around??
“Granted, I can’t think offhand of a situation in which stabbing yourself with your own sword would give you any kind of tactical advantage in a duel (other than, er, ending it), but I assume there probably is one if you think about it long enough.”
For starters, I think Moridin could name one, considering that he stabbed himself to obtain a massive advantage over Rand which probably would have resulted in his victory if he hadn’t been suckered into a trap in the process.
In regards to the under-population, I think it does point to the Yellow and the Aes Sedai in general (and even those like the Kin and Wisdoms) not really being as helpful or thick on the ground as maybe we think they should be, because the population should be increasing or at least stable with better-than-pre-modern-Earth medical care and, especially, lower infant mortality.Instead it seems to be in decline. I mean, Baerlon seems the biggest town in the entire area that used to have both Manetheren and Aridhol in it. That must mean the population of that region is much less that what it was two thousand years ago. yes, Aridhol itself is cursed and that’s why it’s empty, but even Two Rivers seems sparsely populated compared to what it must’ve been, and at least it has some villages in it. That’s like Italy still having only a a couple of villages in it today, after (because) Rome was burned by the Visigoths.
Though that said, I do appreciate in TEotW the fairly constant stream of farming villages along the road. That’s a much more likely way the whole of Randland should be, which is villages and farms all over the place, broken by empty land or forest.
Well, I’ve had this wacky theory for years about the depopulation. Reincarnation is a big deal in Rand’s world. Right? Suppose that due to all of those souls wiped from the pattern 3000 years ago from the effects of balefire, there aren’t enough souls to fill up the land at the end of the third age.
Browniesbane @24: Balefire doesn’t destroy the soul. See #2 at this link.
Is Leigh’s introductory comment, “Reread Redux…the words have lost all meaning,” a reference to the dissent in the recent ACA decision? An odd place to insert such a reference, but the timing and similarity seem like too much of a coincidence, to me. Or maybe it’s just a ta’veren effect!
I agree 100% on Hurin, and I think Leigh’s description of him as “fundamentally decent” is excellent. He was just a decent guy trying to do the right thing. His death was very sad to me, too, but almost had to happen; a story like this not only has to have a lot of sad deaths, but also deaths of people that you know enough to care about, and whose deaths do not really accomplish anything, but reflect that in conflicts of this nature, lots and lots of people, and lots of decent people, die. Isn’t there a later passage when Hurin asks Rand (in the other world through the Portal Stone) to make sure, if he dies, that his wife knows what happened to him? Also very sad, but I guess provides some comfort that Hurin, like a lot of Borderlanders, is ok with the thought of dying, so long as he goes out fighting the Shadow.
I also agree with Leigh that the lack of explanation of sniffers does not bother me. Not everything can be explained, of course, and I like the idea that we cannot explain all of the “magical” things, because it leaves open the possibility that there are even more cool things out there yet to discover (like flying !) Plus, in light of their often insufferable intellectual arrogance, anything the Aes Sedai cannot explain is all right by me.
Easing the badger…heh. If the WOT Encyclopedia does not explain it, we’ll have to rely on the Urban Dictionary. (If you’ve never been there, don’t go. Some mental images, you can’t un-see.)
Like Way (@12), I always assumed the carving was a ter’angreal. It never occurred to me until your post that it might be an angreal. So, thanks for the ex-post facto frustration of bemoaning the fact that this one (if it was an angreal) never found its way into a good guy’s hands.
A bubble of evil does make more sense, but as gadget pointed out (@@.-@), it also makes sense that Fain set one trap, and Rand’s ta’veren effect drew him to it.
Mat does deserve a few forehead flicks here, as does Perrin, and I have been in the “don’t like this story line camp,” but as someone pointed out a few discussions back, the dagger effect might explain most or all of it. In retrospect, having seen how awesome Mat becomes, maybe the whole point of this story line was to emphasize how much of an effect the dagger had. Imagine someone like Cenn Buie carrying that dagger around for a while? Would he turn into Gollum?
The population issue really struck a chord with me – it gave me a general feeling of depression about the current and future state of Randland. It is weird that no one wants to claim these large swaths of land, but maybe that shows that there is a lot of banditry in this era, and it’s just not worth the effort of “claiming” some of these areas. As Leigh points out, it appears to be a sign of the impending apocalypse. The flowers blooming after the Last Battle was a nice contrast, and gave me the vague impression that many of these areas would soon be occupied with “Last Battle Boomers.”
@8 – wcarter – I think you’re right, and doesn’t Ingtar pretty explicitly say this near the end of the book? My recollection is that it is fairly clear that he turned out of gloom, and not out of any hope for reward from the D.O. Ingtar’s despair was striking in that almost to a person, the Shienarans seemed to view their seemingly endless war with the Shadow as the natural order of things, and did not seem upset that their lot in life was comparatively grim.
@10 – Ryamano – I always had the impression that many of the various recent Randland wars were fought for reasons other than territory – loot, pride, boredom, some noble trying to make a name for himself, etc. As ValMar points out (@10),it also could have been rivalries, or disputes over particularly strategic pieces of land.
@15 – birgit – I thought the Shienarans who were unfriendly to Rand did not like him because he looked Aiel, and many of them had fought the Aiel. The other Shienarans all seemed to take Rand’s “lord” status in stride, and in fact seemed to take comfort from having everyone in their “proper” place in the chain of command (or station in society).
Ditto @@@@@ 26 on the “insufferable intellectual arrogance” of the Aes Sedai! Right up to the Last Battle, they continue to be convinced they are the ONLY ones who know what should be done and how it should be done. I will give Egwene credit for realizing when the seals should be broken but overall she remains an infuriating character to me. She is constantly swinging from awesome to stupid throughout the whole series.
As for Mat, he deserves a slap upside the head here (and later) but even after he becomes totally awesome in battle, doesn’t he still think to himself that Rand is going to go mad and physically destroy the world as well as all his friends?
BillinHI @27 – concerning Mat, I think you’re correct that he keeps thinking nasty thoughts about Rand (and I believe Artrur Hawkwing calls him on it at the Last Battle), but I give him a pass because despite all of his complaints, he still does what he needs to do. I also take some of his internal monologue as a little sarcastic, even to himself. At the end of the day, I’ll take a complainer who gets the job done over someone who says the right things, but may not be as dependable. Of course, that all comes later. At this point in the story, he’s being a bit of a jackass.
The incident with Siuan, Rand, and the bowman (a Gray Man, wasn’t it?) is funny because while it sticks out to me due to the number of times I’ve read the books, especially the early ones, it doesn’t seem like something Rand would remember all the way in ToM when he comes back to the Tower. Granted, almost being killed is something you’d remember, especially if you’re a farmboy from the Two Rivers, but at this point in the narrative there have already been lots of people trying to kill him, and with everything that happens over the next two years, it’s amazing Rand could remember it. Then again, characters in books often have incredible memories of things that happened before (except when the plot requires them not to, of course), so I think we can just chalk it up to another example of Acceptable Breaks from Reality. And I do still like the continuity nod, since the in-story reason is that ToM is the first time Rand sees Siuan again after this incident—so if he was going to remember it, that would have been the first chance he got to say anything to her about it.
I think I agree with Leigh: Hurin is indeed a decent and extremely kind and caring man. I’d also say I think her initial term for him does fit him and still works despite him being a sniffer: because while his ability causes him to notice and be called upon to identify lots of violence, he himself never seems jaded or cynical about the business. In fact I’d say the way he always reacts to violence, particularly the truly vile kinds he comes across in this book, underscore even more how innocent he is. There’s something about his reaction to the death and depravity they come across that reminds me very much of the Tinkers, and I do believe innocent is a good word for them (or perhaps naïve is better—but innocent still fits Hurin to me).
Anyway, a wonderful character, and it really is terrible that we lose him the way we do. Still, at least he and Rand make up before the end, and Rand’s reaction to his death just proves he held him in the same regard the reader likely does.
I never thought about it, but it does make a lot of sense that sniffing would be a Borderlands thing. Wonder if anything about that will be in the encyclopedia? It’s also interesting (looking ahead here) that Perrin has to pretend he’s a sniffer too to be believed, since this implies that wolfbrothers are not known or trusted in the Borderlands where you’d think they’d know that wolves never appear among the Shadowspawn as allies. But there’s a difference between not allying with the Shadow and being something civilized men would trust, and we don’t even know how common wolves are that far north anyway; Perrin mentions there being empty spaces in Caralain where Rand could hide, info he had to get from the wolves, implying they can be found there but not very close to the cities. Then again, cities, plus the wolves would avoid the Shadowspawn and the Blight too if they could help it.
Still, it’s probably just as well Perrin didn’t give himself away, since Ingtar was at the Darkfriend Social and could have identified him by the wolves. (Although, did he ever recognize Perrin and Mat, or Rand for that matter? If so, I guess his orders weren’t to kill any of them despite the visions Ba’alzamon showed everyone—which would explain why he looked confused—or that by this point he’s already regretting his choice and hoping for the Horn to save him, so he isn’t interested in doing anything to the boys.)
It’s true Lan’s speech does come out of nowhere and seems clunky, but I can sort of understand it in context. Lan is about to head off with Moiraine, while Rand is going on a perilous journey. Neither of them know if they will survive what lies ahead, or when their paths might cross again, so it makes sense Lan would want to tell him a last piece of advice now while he has the chance. As for why he didn’t mention it before, because he didn’t think Rand would need it: either because he expected them both to be together for quite a while longer (traveling to the Tower, then Illian) or because he didn’t expect more than the ordinary dangers. But after the Horn and dagger were stolen, Rand would be going after them, and Lan would be going a different direction with Moiraine, so…
I’d forgotten that bit about Siuan with Perrin and Mat. I wonder what was said too. Neither of them mention it later in their POVs, not even Mat when he meets her again after his Healing. I can only guess Moiraine told her something about them (probably not their abilities, but that they were ta’veren and maybe what Min saw around them) and she made the usual cryptic Aes Sedai references to keep them on their toes.
I remember always liking Illian, it seemed like a much nicer place to me than either Altara or Tear. Perhaps not coincidentally, I have been to New Orleans and enjoyed it very much there.
I had forgotten Mistress Nieda and Easing the Badger appeared here, before we see them in TDR. Nice to know they’ve been with us this long. ;)
That angreal always felt like a Chekhov’s Gun to me. I wonder if the guy who found it was one of those who came to the Black Tower? But yeah, it would have been quite helpful to Rand or Logain, wouldn’t it?
In hindsight I have to wonder about those men, trying to trick Domon into accepting their commission so he could be killed in a very Rosencrantz and Guildenstern fashion. The WOT Encyclopedia site points out the colors they wear could be from either House Riatin or House Saighan, which could put either Toram or Colaevere behind this. The question is why? Daes Dae’mar isn’t enough reason, since Domon has no connection to Galldrian and thus no reason for someone who had designs on the Sun Throne to seek him out. And while Toram later gets caught up in Fain’s taint, it’s never indicated he was a Darkfriend. If Domon’s surmise is correct and the seal is the reason he was targeted, that suggests to me that, House colors notwithstanding, the men were sent by Barthanes, probably at Ishamael’s orders.
I can accept Jordan’s word that Fain made the fly vision, but I still have to question how he’d know Rand would go into that particular house. I’d suggest maybe he somehow tied the ‘trap’ to Rand (seeing as, as the Dark One’s Hound, he still has a connection with Rand that would let him identify his presence/essence), but I’m not sure if he’s powerful enough yet for that (see how he keeps gaining/losing control of the Fade here). But the alternative, that Fain somehow got control of a bubble of evil, is even less plausible (and also never shown to be something anyone can do, not even him later on). Ah well, either way it’s disturbing as hell and I always felt sorry for the family.
Speaking of disturbing: yes, that Myrdraal nailed to the door always stayed with me (in fact it has probably influenced my grab bag of horror imagery for my own writing, ah well).
The Aiel infodump from Ingtar is a perfect example of how to do a trope right: not only is it naturally inserted into the conversation (a segue set up by asking about why Masema doesn’t like Rand), but Ingtar of course would have been on-hand to fight and thus know about the Aiel. What’s interesting is how accurate his info is compared to the legends and misapprehensions most of the Westlands have of Aiel. I guess the Borderlanders have had enough experience/interaction with them to be able to sift truth from fiction?
Speaking of Ingtar, his comment about Changu and Nidao needing to be “buried properly, despite being Darkfriends, in remembrance of the good they did before” is another nice bit of foreshadowing regarding himself.
It is indeed odd to think of all that unpopulated land, but for various reasons the population in Randland has been declining over the centuries, rather than exploding as ours is, so that accounts for the discrepancy. Which yes is a sign of the end times, but also a long-term result of all the deaths in the Trolloc Wars and the War of the Hundred Years; it just took this long for the ultimate effects to manifest themselves.
Ah, Crazy Aunt Mierin. Having just been going through the re-read of AMoL again, she’s definitely on the brain, so it’s nice to come back to when she first appeared in the series. Fun times ahead!
@2 brandi: Nice to see I wasn’t the only one who noticed that! Like I said above, this may be an example of the Borderlanders being more accurate in their views of Aiel because they have interacted/fought with them so often, or maybe just that they’re less prejudiced or not as prone to the telephone effect of gossip? Ironic either way, to get true info from a Darkfriend.
@@.-@ gadget: Ah ha, I knew there was an explanation I was missing. When in doubt, ta’veren.
@8 wcarter: Well said.
@11, 5: Interesting. I had not considered that bit of description. Despite Jordan’s assurances, I have to wonder…
@13 wcarter: Intriguing, I rather had the initial association myself. Too much background in medieval and Renaissance culture.
@15 birgit: Considering Galldrian gets easily removed by Thom, and what happens to him is due to Daes Dae’mar machinations in response to Rand as a mysterious outlands noble rather than anything to do with him being the Dragon Reborn, I’d guess it was Darkfriend Barthanes using Galldrian as a patsy. The fact Galldrian took the throne from Barthanes’ family after the Aiel War was probably some nice icing on the cake for him as well.
@17 cdrew: I always thought the one who fired the arrow was a Gray Man, and that’s who was also watching him earlier; channelers can sense Shadowspawn, at least early in the series. ;)
@22 James Spangler: Great example!
@27 BillinHI, @28 TaiSharNedStark: To be fair to Mat, not only does he not know about the Cleansing until Verin tells him in TGS, but he never finds out about Nynaeve learning to Heal taint madness. So even once he knows the taint is gone, as far as he knows men who had already channeled before the Cleansing (including Rand) were still mad and could still destroy/kill everyone near them because of it. Plus the whole Prophecies thing. I think we can chalk Mat up as another victim of the propaganda campaign Ishamael waged against Lews Therin since the Breaking. The fact he was Rand’s friend just makes it more jarring and annoying.
Perrin knows about the empty Caralain grass because that is the region where he and Egwene wandered until Elyas showed himself to them.
When I first read it I was younger, and my grasp of English wasn’t good enough to go reading things into things all the time. So I thought “Easing the Badger” was a reference to the common belief that badgers will bite until they hear a crunch. Maybe the idea is getting the badger drunk will ease it off your boot or something.